August 27, 2002


  • Many that live deserve death
    Many that die deserve life


    Can you give it to them?


    Gandalf to Frodo Baggins in "The Lord of the Rings"


    Oftentimes we find ourselves frightened or angry over what we see on the television, what we hear on our radio. It seems that the whole world is peopled with irrational impersonal violent enemies. Stories of children abducted from their beds, stories of horrifying disease arriving in tainted mail, and stories of death, destruction, bombs and guns seem to dominate the news.


    In response, we want to lash out, launch the preemptive strike, cut the head off the snake that weaves about hissing and sticking it’s malevolent tongue out at us.  We despise those people who hurt us or stand ready to hurt us.  We feel justified in our hatred and anger toward terrorists, abusers, murderers . . .


    On the other hand are the victims of violence, disease, and abuse whose lives are mutilated and destroyed by their contacts with the elements of evil.  We feel compassion toward them and cry out our grief that we have not the ability to return to them one lost day, or to redeem them from one hour of suffering.  Some things are outside the scope of human capacity.


    I am alarmed when I hear news of requests for the justice department to be granted new powers to invade our lives.  I'm grieved by reports of "collateral damage" which occur whenever we undertake military action.  I'm frightened by a world that seems to have forgotten the lessons of the past.


    Maybe it's a minor thing on the radar screen of things to be unconcerned about, the removal of the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.  But it seems to me part and parcel of the package that worries me most.  Before we take that step, I think that we should stop and think about the direction that step moves us toward.  Whether we think that Christian Theism is the best system to live under, or whether or not we personally believe that God exists is beside the point.  The phrase "under God" reminds us each time we say the Pledge of the underlying assumptions held by the framers of our Constitution, the founders of our country.


    When we consider their worldview, we can understand why they wrote the Constitution the way they did.  They assumed that because every person was made in the image of God, every person has value.  "We hold these truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights. . . That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among men"


    If we decide that we no longer wish to live or operate under this frame of reference, what view will we hold instead?  Shall we take the view of Naturalism?  All men are the result of cosmis chance in cooperation with the laws of physics as such they have no inalienable rights. . .  Governments are instituted by those with the power to enforce their will. 


    Perhaps we should go with Eastern Monism.  All men are one, any perception that you are not me, he is not she is illusion.  There is no guilt because there is no sin.  There are no rights because rights require a person to exercise them.  Government is a sad lack of realization of Oneness. 


    Or we could susbstitute the Postmodern view that we don't know where people came from, we don't have any way of communicating clearly about what they are doing much less what they should be doing.  Government can never be perceived as other than the oppression of one group by another group armed with a metanarrative and the persuasive power to convince others.


    There is a lot about the doctrine of the founding fathers that I think they got dead wrong.  But before we jettison that worldview entirely, I think we should stop and ask ourselves what view we will base our laws on instead.  Would you rather live under a system of law that assumes you have the inalienable right to life?  Or one that assumes that if you suffer it is because of past bad karma so that any attempt to relieve your suffering would be the true evil.  Would you rather live in a country that has laws based upon the principle of private property, or would you rather live in a country that arrogated all property rights to the state?  Would you rather live with the understanding that you have freewill and can thus be praised for your efforts and rewarded accordingly, or would you prefer a society that assumes that there is no such thing as frewill, you are nothing more than a bag of chemicals and biological determinates, your acheivements are not your own because at the heart of it all there is no "you" to acheive anything.


    It's fun to debate worldviews and to argue about how improvements could be made upon our laws.  But, I think that we should remember that without the foundation we currently have, our debate would never be anything more than an interesting intellectual exercise.  There are countries in the world based on some of the alternative views that I mentioned above.  We might want to visit, but we don't want to live there. 


    Do not be eager to deal death and judgment
    For even the very wise cannot see all ends.

Comments (24)

  • *sniff*  A dinner plate fell off the table this morning and hit me on the toes and it really hurts! 

    I am having a hard time focusing on anything other than my throbbing foot!

  • Poor Fugitive lol OUCH!!

  • That is an absolutely amazing piece of work.

  • Even if "All men are the result of cosmis chance in cooperation with the laws of physics" it dos not follow that "as such they have no inalienable rights" - the laws of nature also gave us an innate feeling of ethics, and where you would attribute those to a rational and good God/Creator, Pantheism would attribute those to the sociobiological development of the species that make mankind a social animal and empathic to his fellow human being. While we attribute ethics to different causes, the result is the same: human rights, civil rights, and making the world a more pleasant place for all to live. This is true regardless of whether the wording of our pledge to our flag contain the worlds 'under God' or not. The original version did not contain those words - they were not deemed necessary then - there's no reason that they are necessary now.

  • You said, "There is a lot about the doctrine of the founding fathers that I think they got dead wrong."  I'm very interested in hearing more about this dead wrong doctrine.  Perhaps another blog, another day.

  • Well argued statement . " With toughts and words we build our world "

    Amitié    Michel

  • Wow!  Another amazing post!  I love to read your blogs, think about them and then come back and read again.  It helps me to understand what I really feel about the issues you discuss.  You’re the best!

  • Wonderful post!!! Wait... here...

  • Sister CTR - I try to only offend people on one side of the fence at a time.    But, I will offer that the doctrine held by many (not all) of our founding fathers that I have the most problem with is their ultra-Calvinist view of predestination.  Although biblical theology affirms freewill, Calvinism denies free will while simultaneously insisting that people be held acountible for their behavior.  This is a logical inconsistency that is more of interest to those inside the stream of Theism than it is to those who do nat partake of htat view.

    Mary - What innate laws of nature?  The laws of physics?  The laws of math?  If you are suggesting that there is a natural law of ethics from whence does it arise?  If it arises as a result of human biological programming - the laws of chance - how can it be said to be a "law" any more than the codes of behavior of any species?  If it is from the "social" evolution that has grown civilization, is it a law?  Or wouldn't that be a social convention that society could change?  I understand that pragmatically groups of people may arrive at the conclusion that a code of ethical behavior is in their best interest - but it does not follow that such a code is either innate or inalienable.  What society gives, society can take away.

  • It is agreed by many that the US Constitution is an amazing document.  It hasn't been fundamentally changed since its creation.  Do you think that the writers, and others that have created amazing works of art,  discovered cures for diseases, etc. received divine inspiration?  I like to think that God's very existence is an inspiration and that the beliefs of those Christians over 200 years ago inspired their writing and the development of our country.  I'm not a profound person, but to take God out of any aspect of life is to diminish his importance.

  • There was a bit of this topic discussed in my first history class last night.

    Btw, love the new look. I wish I knew enough html to create my own look, but I guess that's another thing to add to my long list of "want to learns" that I have. And, it's another reason I change colors, banners, & backgrounds so much. I get easily bored. Hmm, autumn is right around the corner isn't it?

    Faith

  • Wonderful blog...and the words spoken "Do not be eager to deal death and judgment
    For even the very wise cannot see all ends." are so true.

  • I've heard this argument about this country being founded on Christianity before - does nobody seem to remember that there was a culture existing here long before the emergence of Europeans on these shores...a culture that was quite happy to remain the way they were. However, the greed of Europeans to own vast areas of land took presidence. People seem to forget that these Christian beginnings created the self same people who ostracised the native Americans and forced them off of the land that they lived on - only giving it back to them once it had become infertile...many generations later.

    This land was not Christian in origin - history teaches us that...

  • Serotonin is synthesised from tryptophan - which is found in turkey and milk...is that what you were trying to think of?

  • Hmmm....some interesting comments.

    God Bless - Dale

  • Yes, but how does Calvinism manifest itself in the Constitution. Show me where. No offense, just curious. I like to watch media. I always ask, why is this a story? Last year was the year of the sharks. Remember? This year is the year of the kidnapped child. Why is this?

  • You give me hope for a return to an intellegent christianty.

  • You used the phrase  "Some things are outside the scope of human capacity."  This is so true Quilted.. we don't understand many things and never will. It's not for us to know. If and when God wants us to know something, we will.

  • Great writing and some great comments here. Good reading!

  • A very thought provoking Blog. The US Constitution is absolutely derived from the Christian Theism worldview as you have defined it. I can not see the Constitution being successful if those who administer and interpret it do not have the same worldview as those who created it. There would be too many inconsistencies and would break down.

    I had some questions when you stated that you thought there were doctrines of the founding fathers that were dead wrong. I wrongly assumed you referred to their political doctrines not their religious. I am glad you cleared that up. I am not surprised that many of the Founding Fathers were Calvinists. From what I understand that was predominate theology for Protestants of that day. I, like you have always had a hard time reconciling freewill with predestination, it is not a doctrine I subscribe to. I do not however see evidence of their doctrine of predestination in the Constitution. I haven't made a study of it, but just quick run through it in my mind I can think of several examples of freewill doctrine showing up and no examples of predestination doctrine. Am I missing some?

  • I find it a contradiction to be asked to pledge allegiance to a nation as symbolized by a flag, to indicate by that pledge that I put it above all things, and then somehow soften the statement with "under God". In my eyes, it cheapens the critical relationship with the Creator. I don't believe that my country, however much I might value the beauty of the land and the rights afforded me as a citizen, is where my first loyalty should lie. It's as in the words of the hymn, "This is My Song". I found a beautifully illustrated site with the words for that hymn here.

  • Well, considering the Constitution and laws were created to preserve property rights (first and foremost), or COURSE our laws can be improved...
    As long as we don't use God to divide US from them...

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