December 22, 2003
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When the Mighty Fall ~
Last week, Kyle left me a comment on the blog where I revealed that Tim and I are divorcing that began, "When the mighty are fallen, how can any stand?" He went on to say that its devastating for someone in his position, contemplating marriage, to hear that a couple has thought it through as calmly as possible (let's be honest, the evaluation of a marriage is never completely calm or objective) and reached the conclusion that the only way through the mess is to separate. He asked me whether there is any hope for avoiding divorce without avoiding marriage. I'd like to answer that question, for myself as well as for him. It goes to the heart of what I believe ~ and what I hope is true about both marriage and might.
Before I try to answer his question, I feel compelled to offer a couple of disclaimers up front. It seems paradoxical to ask me for advice and impossible for me to formulate an answer because if I'm in the process of seeing my own marriage break apart, how could my answer be trusted? Surely if I knew anything about how to make a marriage strong, I wouldn't be in the position I'm in today. My second disclaimer is that that I'm not objective. I want to believe that I'm a good person, I want to believe that I did everything I possibly could to solve our particular problems, and I want to see myself as the hero of my story. The truth is that it takes two people to make a marriage and it takes two people to break one. I bear responsibility for the place I'm in today.
We expect a lot from our mates, and if we find the struggle difficult, we are bombarded with the ads for no-fault divorce that make it seem as though it's no more traumatic than making an appointment with the dentist. I hope you understand that this is a lie. On the charts of life stressors, divorce is at the very top. A divorce represents the death of your hopes and dreams of a future with your chosen partner. All kinds of feelings of failure, rejection, guilt, anger, and sorrow are mixed up in a cocktain that no one would ever choose to drink if he or she felt there were any way around it. In addition the things that go along with divorce are pretty high up on that chart in their own right. Depending on your pre-divorce situation, you could (like me) find yourself facing a move, coping with the need to know right now how to do things that you've depended on someone else to do for you, and having to find a job. Divorce tends to be a financial catastrophe which takes years of recovery. No one wins in a divorce.
On top of the difficulty that the divorcing couple experiences personally, all the studies coming in on the effects of divorce on children are in agreement. Children may be the ones who pay the biggest price of all. Their lives are disrupted, their sense of security is destroyed, and they become far more likely to get involved in all kinds of things that parents want to see their children avoid like drugs and prison. Children of divorced parents are more likely to either avoid marriage for themselves, or wind up divorced. The negative outcomes for children are so severe that they make the cliche that we should "stay together for the sake of the children" seem both reasonable and wise.
Last week I talked about the level of pain necessary to bring us to the point of believing that our best hope is to separate. Maybe it would help if I describe what it is we are hoping to achieve with this move. Certainly we don't want to scar our children, ruin our financial futures, or create loneliness and pain. We are already in the place where each of these things is happening. We are hoping that through separation we can avoid or minimize some of the worst of these possibilities.
Since we agreed to separate, we've actually been able to talk more, to share more of our hopes and to cry more of our tears. We are trying now to build a friendship and that's a lot harder than you might think. We've been lovers, we've made each other parents, and we've worked together at the business of family, but we've never been friends. Does that sound harsh? I'm afraid as I type this that my husband will read it and feel hurt that I've said it here. We are talking about it now, but for a long time, we couldn't. And that may be the key to what it takes to know that you are heading for the rocks, if you can't talk to each other, hope dimishes day by day.
Kyle, the institution of marriage is a formidable fortress. Safely inside these walls there should be communication about everything. Talk to each other. Talk about the important things and the unimportant things. Touch each other and support each other. Listen to each other. Teach each other how to communicate so that you can hear each other. Follow through with your promises both spoken and implied that you will do the things that you need to do in order to meet each other's needs. Figure out what she needs and then DO it. And the same goes in reverse, tell her what you need from her. Don't assume that she knows, that she can figure it out on her own.
We do not have the idea that we will divorce so that we don't have to deal with each other. We will in many ways be forced to deal with each other more because we have more details to be discussed, more conflicts to negotiate, and more obstacles to overcome in the day to day process of trying to raise our kids. We are changing our legal status. We will no longer be tied together for financial burden or benefit. We will no longer be living in the same place. But there is no avoidance of the fact that we are in a relationship that will in many ways never end. No court decision can change that.
I've thought about the people I know who have no children when they divorce. I've wondered if it's easier for them, if perhaps they can move on and truly end the relationship. Marriage changes a person. Becoming one flesh with another human being, even if the bond is imperfect changes you. You can separate, but you can never undo the influence that person had on you. So I'm willing to bet that even when there are no children, the divorce is just as devastating as it is for those of us who are parents.
I'm not really answering the question am I? Marriage can be either the best or the worst, heaven or hell, and it depends on the choices you both make, what you do or don't do. This brings me around to the question of might. What makes a person strong and how do you know whether you are strong enough for the task? The short answer is that you won't know until you after the battle whether you have strength to survive it. But I think that many times we are decieved about just what strength means. I can tell you that the ability to fight, to stand up to each other, and to win you argument is not strength in a marriage. These aspects are weaknesses that will tear down and destroy. In a marriage, strength is seen in your ability to love when the other person deserves it least (that's when they need it most.) Might comes when you are able to forgive the incident that you cried about only hours ago. Real strength is revealed when you choose to honor your commitment sometimes minute by minute because you aren't able to see to the next hour or day.
This is the kind of strength that Twila Paris sang about 25 years ago in a song that some of you know.
Lately I've been winning battles left and right
But even soldiers can get wounded in the fight
People say that I'm amazing
Never face defeat
But they don't see the enemy
That lays me at his feet
They don't know, that I go running home when I fall down
They don't know, who picks me up when no one is around
I drop my sword and cry for just a while
Cause deep inside this armor
The warrior is a child.
Comments (34)
Thanks. Praying for you.
KB
Marriage is all of these things. And more.
The hardest thing to realize is that one is holding it together. As you said, it takes two to make it work and two to tear it apart. Too often, the tearing apart comes because the one who has sacrificed their very Self to keep it together finally realizes that it's too much. That One cannot hold the marriage together forever. The One gets exhausted by the broken promises, the apathy, the neglect.
My opinion - for Kyle - is to make sure the communication is flowing both ways. And to be sure that the burden of sharing a life is spread between the Two. This is not a financial comment - it is a comment of Heart.
Sometimes, the only way to stay together in an uneven situation is to shut down. To become as apathetic as the other in order to survive. While that can "save" the marriage, the cost is enormous.
{{{hugs}}} I must have missed the earlier post ... Yes, divorce is a very tough thing. What you say above is wise. And regarding divorce even without children - even if you never see the other former partner again - there will still always be a connection and the reminder of a hope dashed, and a failure. For me, once I'd been divorced, it became extraordinarily difficult to ever believe in the dream of "forever" again... even upon remarriage... which is sad.
Stunned speechless. More so than when I first read about your decision to divorce. My heart has been heavy and I've been thinking about so very much since I first read it. Now you've given me more to chew on as I head out of town with my family... knowing full well that each time could be the last.
This is an excellent piece of writing, Terri.
Only because I am a rogue bastard can I say this;
Your comment, "The truth is that it takes two people to make a marriage and it takes two people to break one." Is a Truth using logic. Truth & False = Truth.
However are you suggesting that the statement "it takes two people to break one" is a truth?
Within legal parameters, as well as in the ethical, moral and religious arenas this is clearly not the case. It takes only one disgruntled party to file for divorce. I would suggest that it only takes one to destroy the 'formidable fortresses of marriage'.
Sail on... sail on!!!
You are a wise person, Terri. You've encapsulated marriage and divorce quite well. My divorce was one of the hardest times in my life, but I did recover. Now I'm the happiest I've ever been. I wish you strength, bravery and happiness in the coming year.
Well put.
Relax, your husband is not hurt by your words here. One of the memories that has persisted with me over the last month is of our first years together. We used to look at each other and say "Yeah, yeah, sure I love you. But more importantly, I like you." We haven't said that in a while.
Terri, of all the tears shed in recent weeks, half have been prayers offered up for your continued safety and well being... Why? Because I really, truly, like you.
*sigh* My feelings about marraige are that feelings ebb and flow, and that there is good and bad. My advice for anyone contemplating marraige would be that it is a commitment, sometimes that can be easy and sometimes it needs to be "honoured minute by minute". I didn't know what commitment was before I was married. I thought it would be easy, always, and didn't realise the work that it would take. I once heard a man explain why he and his wife had stayed married for so long (50 or 60 years), and his answer was that neither one of them fell out of love at the same time. You are a very wise woman and I wish you the very best.
This may well turn into a blog in your comments...but I have been through this in several ways. I was a child that grew up with parents who stayed together only because of me. I'd have been SO much happier with only one REALLY happy parent, rather than two people who hated each other, AND ultimately me because *I* was the glue that made them have to stay together. Children know if their parents are not happy. It's NOT a favor to them, or to yourselves to stay together just because of them.
When I was divorced from my ex, we had no children, but as LMGT said, there was such a massive feeling of failure and loss that it was YEARS before I could contemplate even dating. I will never totally trust a man again, especially after my last couple of experiences, so my chances of a marriage relationship are doomed from the start, even if I had a million guys knocking my door down to be with me. I have never wanted in that relationship again, I do want somebody in my life, but marriage scares me no end after all I have seen of it.
I've also known many married and unhappy people trying to fill that place that is empty with "other" people, and stay in their marriage THAT way. THAT is the worst of all, because THAT also eventually hurts the children if there are any, by teaching them by example that that behavior is ok, or by killing their trust in faithfulness at all. It hurts the spouse that is being cheated on, because they will always find it out, and also the one involved in the triangle who may truly love the unavailable partner, but gets the scraps left over, and not the real meat of the relationship. It also shortchanges the one that is cheating, because they get the least of all, not the most. THEY lose self respect, honor, and their chance at a real, loving, committed relationship, in order to pretend that is what they do have.
Frankly, I think that you and Tim are doing the very best, most mature and caring thing I have ever heard of. {{{Hugs}}}
I didn't realize you were going through this and my prayers go out to both of you.
I'm astonished to find another human who also feels that it takes two to break a marriage (as well as make it) - most of us blindly think that only one person is to blame, yet it's also our actions and choices which influence that other person to an incredible degree, and that cannot be disputed.
I'm the child of divorced parents; I've been married a relatively short time (five years). What I've learned is....we humans have an uncanny tendency to expect perfection from each other...and when that expectation isn't met, we decide to move along and try and obtain that perfection from someone else, when realistically that perfection exists nowhere except the fragile landscape of our own rather unsophisticated psyches (jeez Tess....lol).
Anyway. There are a billion cliches about marriage and divorce - I'm sure you've heard most of 'em. You know you're in my prayers.
I can relate to Kyle. Somehow when we read here at Xanga we put some people on a pedestal and I did that with your and Tim's marriage. I find these blogs really scare. If you can't do it, how the hell are we going to manage it? But that is my problem and my blog.
I do think the children scarring depend entirely on the parents level of communication, and it sounds like you are off to a good start to minimize your children's scarring.
This was so sadly beautiful. You are strong, and brave and I respect you. I've never been married and am not sure I ever could get married...it's too scary, seeing as where I'm coming from. I'm sure it can be a beautiful thing, but I'm not sure I'm cut out for it. Your words here really spoke to me. -Kate
I don't know anything about marriage. But I was a child once. Almost all of my friends' parents had been divorced. I use to think about. What would I do/think/feel if my parents got divorced? I've always thought I wouldn't much be bothered. Moving was a part of my life, so was travel. We weren't poor but we weren't rich either. We always had what we need and a sometimes a bit more. When I see things on t.v.; whenn kids try to get their parents back together or they think the divorce is their fault I don't understand. More than likely I get pissed off. Parents are people, though they have the extra responsiblity of children that does not strip them of their rights to pursue happiness. Parents have a life outside of their children, and children will have a life outside of their parents. Children can still love their parents together or apart and parents will still love their children together or apart. And everybody loves better when they are happy,
Our lives are based on myths and assumptions, unreasonable expectations and unfounded hopes. Our marriages, too. It surprises me that 50% of marriages can "succeed."
90% of relationships don't, if you define success as "lasting."
I'm a child of divorce. I wish my parents had divorced years earlier, though, as unhappy as we were. Being together was what was unsettling.
I use my pet turtle as a knee pad
Those are really nice lyrics...
I am but a fool and my advice may carry little weight... but...sometimes changes can seem like the end of things, and though at times we may not understand it, all things happen for a reason. It seems both of you understand that this reason is best. Instead, see things as the beginning of something new. Something great will surely come your way, something better than before I'm sure. You're a great person, I've always enjoyed reading your blogs and though in flesh we've never met, I can tell your soul is deep, meaningful and good.
Keep the faith.
you are so right....but then love is not a romance novel....love is work.....and sometimes I think when you share something you both love it gives you the incentive to work out your diffrences rather then walk away and leave things unsolved and unfinished.
Wow! I came to your site through a friend's site that is going through a divorce as well. Never having been married, but having a very sacred trust blown apart 14 years ago, and having been a child of successfully married parents, I would like to add my two cents - for what it's worth. I strongly believe in communication between people in ANY relationship, but especially marriage. I agree that you must find out how the other person needs you to communicate with them. Sometimes we get too 'me' about things and don't think about how the other person might be taking this in.
My parents have been married for almost 45 years. My mother told me something a few months back that really says it all, "Your father is my best friend." That still brings tears to my eyes. I've watched them....it seems the following were their keys: dating each other (even after the kids), communication/understanding, respect, friendship and love.
As for the kids, I've read a lot, watched a lot, and have known enough 'kids' (now grown-ups) that have said that their parents "staying together for the children" was not the best thing in the world because they saw two people that they love grow ever hateful of each other and of them, the kids. My friend that is going through her divorce has two kids. They, as parents, have handled it very well. Yes, there will be times when the kids wish that things were 'like it was before', but you could have two parents who live in the same house, but not in the same home. Anyways, that's my $.02. Don't hate me for my thoughts.
I also missed the earlier post where you said you were divorcing. Yes, I thought that when everything started happening earlier this fall that it was big, and it is, it seems, everything. Strength to you in the weeks and months ahead.
My husband is my dear friend, and we share many things including a vibrant intellectual connection and a peaceful home. A great partnership. But alas, he has not yet become my true lover (not speaking technically). I wonder if he ever will, and if not, if this is a fatal flaw....somewhere down the road...
yep
*sigh* and hugs,
Deb
This is a truly amazing post. Thank you for being so honest about your thoughts and what you are going through. Having been there myself, I know how difficult the decision is, no matter what the "cause". I also know the deep fears that arise, particular to this event.
A marriage (or coupleship) becomes an entity in itself, and like people, each one is different. There are no blanket issues that apply to every single one, or cures or protections that will always work. But I think you hit on the one thing that will HELP more than anything, and that is to truly be friends with your partner. Friendship will carry you through many things that romantic love will not. Believing that your partner's interests always are the first priority, putting their welfare above others that are outside the coupleship, respect, consideration, LISTENING to each other (not just talking) - these are all aspects of friendship, a bond and intimacy that gets deeper the more you experience together. Friendship weathers changes easier than passion does; it also gives relief when one or the other partner simply isn't up to it. But it's very hard to make friends once the marriage is settled into other patterns.
My heart goes out to you. I know you'll weather this and find that you are much stronger than you think you are now. And you will continue to learn from it. Your words are proof of that.
I wish you well.
T
QM... so much of what you are saying is what I am living right now. How many times do you stop and ask yourself if you are doing the right thing? I'm down to every 2 hours now. He moves out Friday.
Terri, so often we skip the "like" for the "love and lust" and find out too late that we don't really like the person. So sad! It hurts so much when we get there. Then we have the daunting challenge of finding out just who we are and what got us to this place. As for me, I married narcissists and tried to fix them....three times! Now I am working on me, fixing me, fixing the empty place that makes me vulnerable to men who prey on kind, trusting women. If there ever is to be another relationship it will not be the way it has been. And only now am I OK with there NOT being a relationship at all. I will pray for your kids and let me assure you children are resiliant and smart. And they only want to see us happy.
Have a Christmas and New Year with new-found peace.
Terri, you know I am an expert at divorce, and it is definately worse with kidIs. My second divorce was 100 times easier than my first. Partly because my second husband was not only making me unhappy and himself unhappy, but was making Kate miserable as well. Tim is a good person and because you have avoided the nastiness of infidelity and vindictiveness, you are miles ahead of most people contemplating divorce. That's not to say you all won't suffer in many ways. Unfortunately, suffering is a part of life.
And as you know, I have found someone new, again. I suppose I never do anything half way, and my mom warned me in a letter she wrote all us kids when she discovered she was dying that I needed to stop being too nice to everyone and to stop trusting people unconditionally. This is not possible for me. I jump into all my relationships unconditionally. I could actually picture myself with this new man. Five months ago I would have been like another commentor and said I could never imagine being in love again. In my mind I believe part of the reason I am so happy with this person is that I was also happy without him or anyone else. For the first time in many single years, I was not interested in having a significant other in my life. Now I can't imagine not being with this person.
Your blog was great as usual. My marriage advice is to NOT ignore the warning signs. If I had truly thought through my reservations before my two marriages, I wouldn't have gone through with either one. I convinced myself it was premarriage worries. Even talking about problems and worries before marriage can solve them. My second husband changed after we got married. You remember I am sure. It was as if I lost all my power in the relationship. He had me, was my husband, and at that point the good behavior was finished. Work out problems before you get married because afterwards, your partner may lose some of the incentive to make things work.
I think about you often and want you to let me know if there is anything I can do to help. And yes, I still forget to buy toilet paper!! Merry Christmas.
Devastation at someone else's marriage ending is a head-in-the-sand attitude!
Its normal for marriages to end in divorce, its living in a fairy tale world to think that the wedding has only one more sentence after it 'and they lived happily ever after'. I wish it wasn't so, but not wanting reality doesn't mean it will go away.
However, divorce, the chance to be happy again, the chance to say I made a mistake, or it isn't working, or we've changed, or I can no longer put up with this, is a lot better than the alternative, 'you've made your bed, you have to lie on it'.
Each marriage goes wrong for different reasons and it doesn't necessarily do so in pain.
"We've been lovers, we've made each other parents, and we've worked together at the business of family, but we've never been friends."
bingo
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