December 10, 2002
-
Righteous Pagans
I was struck by a comment that Morganna made yesterday, and I'm not looking at it so I'm not going to try to quote her directly, but the gist of it was that when people find out that she's a Pagan, they assume that means she's an aethist.
So I thought that I'd take a moment today to talk about the way that the Bible discusses Pagans. In the first place, everyone in the Bible pre-Abraham is a Pagan. The term Pagan has come to have the meaning "non-believer" in contemporary discussion, but in fact the word originally refered to the location of the believer - the pagans were the country people.
In Jewish-Christian theology, Pagans are 'God-fearers'. People who worship God according to their understanding outside the Biblical covenant. Famous Pagans in the Bible include Noah, Job, Rahab (who is listed in the New Testament in the Genealogy of Jesus), Enoch (one of two people in the Bible whom God took to heaven immediately, he didn't die), and Cornelius who's prayer to God resulted in God sending Peter to him.
According again to Christian theology, all persons who are outside the Abrahamic or New Covenant have access to God through the Noahide Covenant. The very first split in the early Jesus movement came over whether or not "pagans" (those outside Judaism with it's ritual and law) could enter into a salvation relationship with God. There was a council held in Jerusalem with the orginal disciples in attendence, James the Brother of Jesus presiding. At that time it was concluded "pagans" (or Gentiles in the vernacular of the New Testament) were certainly a part of the wider family of God.
If you take a peek into the 11th chapter of Acts you will note that in Peter's report to the council, he doesn't say that these persons have agreed to a specific theology, he doesn't say that they perform certain rituals, he doesn't say that they obey the law. What he says is that Jesus promised that instead of baptism by water, the mark of membership in the family of God is baptism by the Holy Spirit. Wherever the Spirit of God is found there is salvation, there is repentance, and there is relationship between man and God.
Since I know of no chapter and verse that suggests that the Holy Spirit is bounded by geography, langauge, doctrine or ritual - it's only reasonable (see I'm using one of yesterday's words to prove that I actually read what I write
) to conclude that pagans are most certainly eligible for membership in God's family. If God considers them family shouldn't we stop acting like they don't have a place at the table?
You might also notice if you peek at Acts 15 that James' judgment is: "that we do not hinder those who are turning to God from among the Gentiles, but that we write to them that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and by fornications and from what is strangled and from blood (murder)" in other words, James upholds the Noahide Covenant as sufficient.
Many of the Pagans I meet have turned from what they understand to be a woman-hating theology of a male god to worship of the Goddess. I hold the Church through the centuries responsible for setting up a terrible obstacle to women (and men who respect women) in that Church Doctrine has undeniably contained anti-woman elements. Rather than condemn those who have expressed their inability to worship a God associated with the painful and degrading aspects of official church doctrine, perhaps it's time for the Church to set aside the unBiblical and outdated rules that it imported from Roman society almost 2000 years ago in favor of the principle that "there is neither Jew nor Greek (insider nor outsider), slave or free (wage earner or captialist), male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus" (Galatians 3:28).
Do you want to know whether or not God considers a person to be righteous? (I warn you that this is a dangerous path because no one can know another person's heart. Sitting in judgment of another person invites judgment upon yourself.) When God is working in and through a person of whatever religious background and orientation, you can be fairly certain that person is righteous before God.
The God of the Bible is a God of all people and all nations. The God of the Bible is neither male nor female and specifically forbade the manufacture of anthropomorphic representations that would depict God's form as one or the other. The God of the Bible is called by both male and female pronouns throughout the texts.
The good news of the Bible is that anyone at anytime in anyplace can have a relationship with the Almighty Creator of the Universe without intermediation by any human being. God doesn't ask that we set aside our intellect, instead we are invited to love God with our mind and to reason together. God doesn't require us to dress up and kneel in a specific place on a specific day (good thing for all those people in the Bible who didn't have any kind of church to kneel in, eh?) God doesn't require ritual.
Someone with more time on their hands may want to run one of those Bible programs that will count how many times it says that anyone who seeks God will find God. I can think of at least four off the top of my head. And not one of those texts says that God is found through theological content, ritual, denial of individuality, or mental suicide. The only thing any of those texts says is that the person seeking God has to have an open heart. The righteous live by faith alone.
You wanna please God? Believe that God exists and rewards those who seek Him. (Hebrews 11:6) You might notice that it doesn't say that God will reward only a few people who seek in a narrow corridor - it says that anyone who seeks is rewarded.
My Jewish friends are Mother and Father. I consider my Buddhist friends to be my Aunts and Uncles. I consider my Pagan friends to be my spiritual Brothers and Sisters. And in all love I ask my Christian friends who are disturbed by the thought of righteous Pagans, that if you can believe that Jesus died on their behalf, why can't you believe that God loves them and meets them where they are in the same way that you are loved where you are?
Okay, I'm done preaching.
Comments (31)
"....that they abstain from things contaminated by idols and by fornications and from what is strangled and from blood (murder)..." Well, aside from the comment about idols (and if modern American culture is not idol-centric, I do not know what is), surely this is a fairly universal set of rules? I guess my issue with all who follow God(dess)(s)(es) and who would disdain those who follow different one(s), or those who do not, is: in what manner are our other beliefs/nonbeliefs hurting yours? It just makes me sad, that those whose lives revolve greatly around one or more dieties cannot make room in their lives, or hearts, or good thoughts, for those whose life does not. Sad
. Which is, of course, your point, although writ perhaps a bit broader than you had intended. 
I AM so glad you're back!
bravo! bravo!! you do understand
But you have totally dismissed the New Testament Covenant of the Blood -- the fact that while yes, God loves ALL of us, it does us no good to just say, "Yeah, I believe there is a God" and then not accept Jesus Christ as Savior and Lord. THAT is what brings a soul into the fold of God. One can see God in everything, claim God is everything and yet if one doesn't do that very simple act of acknowledging Him as their Savior, then a judgment does occur -- and it ain't me, it's God who will make that last judgment.
I guess what I see in your very well-written and thought-out argument is a distinct lack of understanding that there is only one path to God and it is not found in the creeds and doctrines of paganism, Buddhism, Hinduism or Judaism. Yes, those who lived before Christ and who followed the Old Testament covenant are with God, but if folks these day are still following a now defunct covenant that was wiped away with the events found in the first four gospels of the New Testament, then no... they've not found God except on a very surface level and if they're following a completely different religion they've not found God at all, they've found something quite different.
It's a lovely thought to call everyone your brother and sister, aunt and uncle, mother and father. Love them, pray for them and then remember that if they are going to heaven too, then what was the point of Christ dying on the cross? what was the point of His resurrection? The thought that everyone is going to heaven because they've found God through whatever path of faith or religion they've chosen makes my own faith moot. The verses you've used pertain to old testament believers and new believers early in the church -- NOT to those who have it all laid out right there in the Bible and new testament. The judgment in Acts is especially written for new Christians who were Gentiles and not Jews. It was a whole new realm of evangelism for the apostles at that time.
Christ does indeed love all of us, that's why Jesus died and rose for us. That's why there is a very clear path to heaven pointed out in the Bible. It is not found via Mohammed, via a goddess, via Buddha or any of the pantheon of gods in Hinduism. And if that means I'm following a narrow corridor of belief, then... I guess I am. It just doesn't mean I'm a narrow-minded, non-Christian hating redneck. Goodness -- that is the single biggest grief within me -- that such an accusation can arise despite the fact that once all the man-made doctrines and rules that have cluttered up Christianity are stripped away, one finds the most open-minded and loving faith to ever exist.
It's all set down very plainly in John 14:6-7a:
"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. If you really knew me, you would know my father as well.'"
Anyway, now I'm preaching and that's freaking me out. LOL. Thanks for provoking my mind into action this morning.
Two eProps for that. *g* I'll now switch my mind back to the usual mad mommyisms... eeee...
That was probably the best demonstration of true Christianity I have ever seen (read). Bravo for your courage to speak out, and to be strong enough to accept that just because someone doesn't believe the exact same doctrine as you, doesn't mean they're damned for all eternity.
Nothing here that I would argue against, dear one. If Christians can find it in their hearts to be accepting of my faith, that is wonderful. And if they can't, that's too bad. As I have said before, my faith is just as sacred and precious to me as anyone else's is to them.
It seems to me that Jesus took a lot of criticism for sitting down with people that were considered low-lifes and sinners - people that the "religious" folk of his day thought were too far beneath them to even associate with. I only wish that more people would follow his example.
I half expect to get to heaven and find that the Christians have their own enclave there...just so they can continue to believe that God has thrown everyone who didn't follow the exact path they did into the pit.
This was brilliant and well written, as usual. Thank you for taking the time to explain it so well. And remember one thing - the Christians you may long to reach with such essays will never open their minds to it. Paul's Church (the Romans 2000 years ago) did a bang up job of convincing generations.
Excellent post!! Big applause! Awhile ago, many moons now, I was looking into different religions and was told that Wicca and or the Pagan beliefs were bordering on Devil Worship. I thought, who are these nuts that have no clue as to what it is. Some people should not preach, or sell books for that matter. Great post!!
Thank You for writing this. I agree
This blog is a wonderful mix of fact with fiction. I can agree on this point--we are all brothers and sisters, equally deserving of God's love. We should love one another unconditionally without judging one another.
Hrm... I'm thinking... didn't Jesus say broad is the way that leads to destruction and many follow it, but narrow is the way that leads to eternal life, and few find it?
Wouldn't you say that those on the broad way are seeking, too?
I know that most religions believe that there are many paths up the mountain and all lead to the top, but when Christ said "I am the Way, the Truth, the Life - no man cometh unto the Father but by me"... that kinda means either He's a liar and Christianity is flawed, or those other paths (apart from salvation by faith thru grace in Christ)... are dead ends.
But I met a very learned person in reading this and the comments... so I'm giving props for that.
hmmmmm ...... I am not sure what I think about this .... I agree with what I think your point is but I am not sure that I agree with everything you put in here.
I all comes down to love...
Surely the point isn't, "which path is right/wrong", but rather...
What's the best possible way a person can live?
What can we offer this world? Can we offer love, tolerance, compassion? Or can we offer ignorance, hatred and fear?
There will never, ever be agreement between those who believe Jesus is the only way to God, and those who don't believe that theory (and yes, it's ALL theory).
But that shouldn't negate either party from living the best they can, and trying to spread love, instead of intolerance.
I just...wow. Nice entry...and precisely it. I've my own strong views on religion...and perhaps I'll do another post on them at some other point. But for now, I just want to thank you for this. It's beautiful, and more true than, I think, many people realize.
-Rubie-
Hmmm...something just doesn't seem right about your arguement. As Christians, yes we should reach out in love to all people, but only in accepting them as God's creation and knowing that it's God's love that will lead them to repentance. Nowhere in the Word does it tell me to be accepting of their beliefs if they clash with mine. Now I'm not speaking of the petty disagreements that go on within the church, but I'd be pretty hypocritical if I said the only way to God is through Jesus Christ and then accepted that someone who believes in the Muslim religion (just an example) has been made righteous by God. Agin, I've nothing against the person, but I can't align myself with their belief. They have every right to believe as they wish because God has given us the freedom to choose, but that still doesn't nullify the sacrifce Christ made on the cross. I might also add that it's not our place to go around denegrating someone else's beliefs, but it is our "duty", if lead by God on a case-by-case basis to share what I consider to be (I know to be) the Truth. A great thought provoking blog, but one I still have an uneasy feeling about. o/
God Bless - Dale
I'd rather attend a church with you at the pulpit than anyone.
Waaaayyyy off subject, but a reply to your note at my blog about tonight's dinner. Hehehehehehe.
Noo... Cookbook doesn't have me at her site. I tried to get added, but it never worked. Bummer eh?
And thank YOU for your kind words at my blog as well. What I love is just how you get me to thinking and all again. I'm so busy buried in Barney and Teletubbies thanks to my daughters that it's just wonderful to feel the light blink on in my brain. *g*
Take care!
What MrsBastage said.
When I first started reading up on neo-Paganism, one point about it that immediately attracted me is that Pagans don't proselytize. Who am I to try and turn another human being, whose free will is as valid as mine, away from the path they've chosen? Especially since I do adhere to a religion that believes all the paths up the mountain eventually lead to the top. All I ask is that people on other paths return the favor, and let me follow mine in peace.
Required by God: broken heart, contrite spirit. http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/59/8#8
Pagan is about any meaning you wish to pour into the word. I've never heard of it being used to characterize pre-Abrahamic persons, and never heard of a Noahide Covenant. But I just love a good religious discussion!
From Deuteronomy 4:
39 Acknowledge and take to heart this day that the LORD is God in heaven above and on the earth below. There is no other. 40 Keep his decrees and commands, which I am giving you today, so that it may go well with you and your children after you and that you may live long in the land the LORD your God gives you for all time.
God gave us ten commandments by which to live. The first four are very precise in regard to worshipping Him. If it did not matter, why was He so specific?
Very well written. Thanks.
I just wanted to add:
Quoting from any religious text is only ever relevent to those who believe in that text...asking a question that relates directly to such a quote cannot be answered fairly by anyone who *doesn't* believe in that text....which leads to circular arguments, more often than not. Besides which, it often encourages a "them and us" mindset, which is generally negative in any context.
No offense meant to anyone.
...welcome back, Terri! Enjoyed your post - an intelligent post on religion/faith. Love and energy.
MuSe
I think you have a pretty good grasp on your faith. I happen to think that Christians who slam non-Christians aren't very good Christians.
Very interesting and I agree with twiddle's comment.
'God' sounds pagan to me. Just the way the word sounds.
It is a very dangerous mindset to get involved in any religion - on whatever side of the divide - and start condemning the faiths and beliefs of others. Sometimes it can happen that people can believe that others are doomed to spent their existence in eternal damnation...but the truth of the matter is that it is they who are scared to think in terms outside of their own little world. In a way, they are caught inside of a little box - and are just little children, afraid to see outside of that box for other truths that lead to the same perception. A truth is a truth - and it matters not how you arrive at that truth...it is just the end result that matters. If everybody needed Christ to be saved, then it goes without saying that the whole human race was doomed before he was born as a living and breathing person.
I always find it a good philosophy to strip away a person's religion and see what you have left...then you can really see the compassioante people from the bigots - but it is also clear to see who are brave and who are just frightened little children.
You are on the path to true enlightenment, Terri - having tolerance to the beliefs of others is truly a rare commodity.
There are those of us on the Earth though, who do not need - or even want - any connection with the God of the Bible...it is rather like comparing apples and oranges - what is true for someone is not necessarily true for everyone. People may be intolerant of pagans - or even fear them - but it is merely because they do not understand the faith...and still see them as ungodly. In a way, they are ungodly - but only in the respect that they do not believe in the same God that the Christians believe in.
You are never going to find a world where everyone fits into neat little pigeonholes...and never, never will you have a world where everyone believes the same philosophy - that is not freedom, it is enslavement.
Great job Terri! The comments to this blog express a wide range of views that I've not seen on any other. It seems you inspired love, admiration, anger, and condescation (sp? the act of being condescending?) among others.
I believe there are many different paths to God and that we are ALL on a journey back to him, whether we accept that or not. I know our views differ on several levels, but I think the basic concepts are the same.
I wish I could give more eprops than 2 (although they really aren't good for much! LOL) but this was a beautiful essay!
Obviously, not everyone will be satisfied with what you've said and I can understand that. But the elegance of your words and your open-mindedness is wonderful and refreshing. I wish more people felt like you.
To my opinion all you declare is good
new homes in Vaughan | teen summer jobs | love game
Comments are closed.