October 29, 2002

  • The Autumn Grim Opus is out.
    This month's issue contains my review of Alice Sebold's The Lovely Bones.


     


    The meeting of sacred and profane


    "I've just never understood why technology and spirituality seem mutually exclusive in so many people's minds." Exmortis


    Short Version:
    Many people believe that science and religion are competing ways of describing reality.  Therefore, scientific explanation is equated with rejection of religious truth.


    Long Version:
    CSI Miami was brutal last night.  The story of little children abducted and murdered went straight to every parent's worst nightmare.  Of course, it being a one hour tv series, they caught the guy.  I like CSI because I'm a puzzle nut and a science junkie.  The Crime Scene Investigation unit of any large police department employs both puzzle solving logic and forensic science to test the theory.  But, last night was so difficult emotionally that instead of returning to Xanga to rewrite the losten post, I went to bed and listened to the sounds of water-splashing rain-tapping, and my husband breathing.


    Excite my emotions and I find it hard to think.  I believe that's exactly why it's so difficult for science and religion to play nicely together.  Emotional investment in a specific worldview, blinds adherents to broader truths.  When you read Exmortis' statement above, do you picture creationists, Amish communities and ayatollah's who reject modern knowledge and understanding while embracing outmoded systems of thought, lifestyle, and ethics based on an illogical view of reality?  Or do you think of the scientist who would write that science "enables man to live as an intellectually fulfilled atheist"? 


    Students of history know that until the past couple hundred years, science and spirituality have been close companions.  As historians discuss and theorize about why scientific methodology arose in the West as opposed to the East, a good case can be made that the doctrine of theistic creation common to Jewish, Christian and Muslim thought set the stage for scientific activity.  Both Greek and Biblical thought asserted that the world is orderly and intelligible.  But, the Greeks held that order is necessary and that one can therefore deduce it's structure from first principles.  Define self-evident terms, formulate statements about the evident terms which are obviously true (axioms or postulates) then combine the axioms via the rules of logic to prove that other statements must be true. 


    Only Biblical thought held that God created both form and matter, meaning that the world did not have to be as it is and that details of it's order can only be determined through observation.  Furthermore, while nature is real and good in the Biblical view, it is not in and of itself divine, as many ancient cultures held, and it is therefore permissable to experiment on it.  Whereas Aristotle worked from deduction, Francis Bacon gave us what he termed a "scientific method" (observe, measure, explain, and verify), which moved us into a whole new realm of discovery. 


    Early scientists believed they were "thinking God's thoughts after Him."  In addition, the Calvinist work ethic supported science.  In the Royal Society, the earliest institution for the advancement of science, Puritans made up 70% of the membership and many of these were clergy.  To Theists, science fills in the blanks of a theology which speaks truly but not exhaustively of Ultimate Reality.  I like to read books of science, both old books and newer ones are fascinating to me.  In these books I see a gradual progression in which the relationship of cooperation and mutual advantage has given way to a battle for the hearts and minds of men.  I frequently encounter contemporary science writers who display a decidedly anti-theistic bias. 


    Take for example the work of sociobiologist Edward O Wilson.  He traces the genetic and evolutionary origins of social behavior in insects, animals and humans.  He asks how self-sacrificial behavior could arise and persist among social insects if their individual reproductive future is thereby sacrificed.  Wilson theorizes that such 'altruistic' behavior enhances the survival of close relatives who share many of their genes.  He futher hypothesizes that all human behavior can be reduced to and explained by biological origins and present genetic structure.  "It may not be too much to say that sociology and the other social sciences, as well as the humanities, are the last branches of biology" to be included in evolutionary theory.  The mind will be explained as "an epiphenomenon of the neural machinery of the brain."  He says that the power of religion will be gone forever when religion is explained by "a philosophy of scientific materialism."


    Theism and materialism are opposing belief systems, each claiming to encompass all reality.  Materialism is the assertion that matter is the assertion that fundamental reality in the universe.  Materialism is a form of metaphysics (a set of claims concerning the most general charcteristics and constituents of reality).  Scientific materialism makes a second assertion: the scientific method is the only reliable path to knowledge.  This is a form of epistemology (a set of claims concerning inquiry and the acquisition of knowledge).  The two asertions are linked: if the only real entities are those with which science deals, then science is the only valid path to knowledge. 


    Science starts from reproducible public data.  Theories are formulated as hypostheses that can be tested against experimental observation.  Choices among theories are influenced by additional criteria of choherence, comprehensiveness, and fruitfulness in suggesting further research and application.  Science is described as objective, open-minded, universal, cumulative, and progressive.  Religious tradition by contrast, is said to be subjective, closed-minded, parochial, uncritical, and resistant to change.  Science is said to require detached observation and logical reasoning whereas religion requires personal involvement in a particular tradition and set of practices.


    Persons who hold to theistic beliefs are subject to attack on their intellect.  Cosmologist Peter Atkins writes that religion is "sentimental wishful thinking" and "intellectually dishonest emotion."  Evolutionist Richard Dawkins says, "Either admit that God is a scientific hypothesis and let him submit to the same judgment as any other scientific hypothesis, or admit that his status is no higher than that of fairies and river sprites."  E. O Wilson proposes that people have in the past relied on sacred narratives to give their lives purpose, so he proposes that "The true evolutionary epic, retold as poetry, is as intrinsically ennobling as any religious epic.  Material reality discovered by science already possesses more content and grandeur than all religious cosmologies combined."  Physicist Steven Weinberg says "I'm against constructive dialogue between science and religion," and that one of the great acheivements of science has been to permit man to live as a non-religious person and that we should not retreat from this acomplishment.


    Not only do many scientific materialists fail to distinguish between scientific and philosophical questions, they also seem unaware of how often they invoke the authority of science to speak for ideas that are not a part of science.  However, it turns out that many of the characteristics present in religious endeavor are also pesent in science and vice versa.  Studies of scientific theories indicate that they do not arise from logical analysis of data, but from acts of creative imagination in which analogies and models often play a seminal role.  In religious language too, metaphor and models are prominent.  These tools enable us to imagine that which is not directly observable.  Clearly religious beliefs are not subject to direct empirical testing, but they can be approached with the same spirit of inquiry found in science.  The scientific criteria of coherence, comprehensiveness and fruitfulness have their parallels in religious thought.


    Science as science does not conflict with religious thought.  Scientific materialism cannot avoid the clash with religious thinking, because it goes beyond scientific fact to draw conclusions about ultimate reality.  As long as scientists misuse their authority to push a metaphysics which rejects the existence of God, sacred and secular meetings will continue to be power struggles benefitting no one.

Comments (29)

  • Hmmm, "In the beginning, God ..... " Sigh, so simple, but so hard. Have a blessed day.

  • As usual, I am not going to make a thoroughly well-thought out response because I haven't thoroughly digested your excellent piece (how do you do mommy-ing AND deep thought?  P-L-E-A-S-E let me in on the secret??).  I was with you to the end, but I was not with you AT the end, as it were.  I understand that many of the tools used to pursue science and religion are the same (the human toolbox is a finite one, after all).  And both science and religion seek Absolute Truth.  But I would argue that science requires objective Proof for verification of Truth, whereas religion requires absolute Belief.  I would further argue that the former will never be within the human grasp (that finite toolbox thing), but the latter is within the grasp of any who find it (of which I am not one, just to make that clear).  Because the ultimate methology of science and religion are at odds, the seekers after each will find themselves so, as well.  And I will come back later and reread, and rethink, and maybe wish to re-comment! 

  • LOL - Well, Lovin - I may want to rewrite the end of this one some day.  I got down to the next to last paragraph and realized that my word count was over 1000.  So I threw on that ending in order to ... end it.  As far as thinking and Mommying simultaneously, I'm not so sure I do it well.  The main adjective used by the family to describe me is 'distracted.'  

  • Personally, I believe 'reality' lies not in religion or science, but in both. It's a huge misconception to assume that science has proved everything provable and observable. I agree with lovingmy40s, the methodology involved in each is totally different. I think my point is really that just because you can't prove it doesn't mean it doesn't exist or isn't true. It just means it can't be proven (or disproven).

  • Okay, Quiltin', I am feeling MUCH less envious.  Not NOT envious, mind, just much less.  Because I read that ending and thought:  huh.  Sounds like she was a bit rushed at the getting-to-the-point part, there.  But hey -- I'm over here being a VERY black pot, indeed, so we can commiserate.  And I still don't know how you do it! 

  • Bonus Nachos! Thanks for the comment & props at mi blog! I have to admit, I'll have to come back to yours as Im just on my way to my poetry workshop...you're just as novel-like as I get!! *L* But i'll be back with a better comment...I promise...and yes, CSI was good last night, wasn't it!!?? *L*
    Jen

  • ...nix to last night, you're think'n today! MuSe

  • only cartoons can explain my reality.

    wonderful post!!!

  • I think the conflict between science and organized religion goes beyond methodology, to goals. Organized religion seeks to place all power in the hands of God, with the clergy convienently placed to wield it in his stead. (Dreadfully convenient if your the Pope or a Televangelist.)

    Science is diametrically opposed to such an approach, having taken the stars from the gods and handed them to anyone with a telescope, having stripped the lightning from Zeus' hand and placed it behind the switch on your wall so that you needn't cower in the dark, etc... etc...

    I agree that some scientists may go overboard in refuting organized religion, but I can't always blame them. The yoke of dogma has crushed humanity for far too long. Perhaps Heisenberg's uncertainty is the handwriting of gawd, or the Big Bang was caused, ultimately, by gawds pinky being thrust into our universe- Many physicists will concede the possibility. But so long as gawd's faithfull masses equate his will with war and intolerance and sanctioned child molestation, those humans unfortunate enough to be gifted with superior reasoning are going to rebel.

    I do.

  • This is great stuff Terri. I’ve given it some thought, and done a little research of my own to share with you (while I SHOULD have been cooking dinner. Guess we’re going out tonight ) Bad SisterCTR You know I’m going to utilize my option, now don’t you? I hope you don’t mind the super blog sized comment!

    Don Lind was an American astronaut who was born on May 18, 1930, in Utah. Before he became an astronaut, Lind served as a carrier pilot for the Navy. Lind became an astronaut in 1966. He has spent over 177 hours in space on one spaceflight. In 1985, Lind flew aboard Spacelab 3. The crew performed several experiments on materials processing. Lind left NASA in 1986. He is currently a professor of physics. He has made some interesting remarks on this subject:

    "Some people have suggested that science and religion are basically different, that they involve themselves in different questions and that they are incompatible intellectually. I challenge the incompatibility part of that statement. Science and religion use different kinds of tools, but I think they are intellectually compatible, since a person who is well educated can also have a testimony. The first challenge that is thrown up to any church is that science deals only with tangible quantities. We can always measure them on scales, or read them on ammeters, or count them electronically. The challenge is that religion is less reliable because it often deals with intangibles such as faith and revelation. But I don’t think this distinction is really accurate.

    I wrote my dissertation at the University of California at Berkeley on pion-nucleon interactions. I have never seen a pion and I have never seen a nucleon, and yet I published an article on them, and I expect the scientific community to take that article seriously. I never touched anything I worked with. It wasn’t tangible; I couldn’t get hold of it.

    In sophomore physics, we learn about inductance or magnetic field lines or capacitance. Has anyone seen or felt inductance or a magnetic field or capacitance? We can measure only their effects. So I suggest that scientists sometimes deal with the intangible and that they do this with no intellectual embarrassment.

    We are told that science is superior to religion because in science, we can experiment to learn its data. Every sophomore has the scientific method explained to him until he can practically repeat it in his sleep. The essence of this explanation is to forget one’s prejudices and make decisions only in terms of the available data. That is the scientific method.

    If that is science and experimentation, the gospel is susceptible to the scientific method. The Lord gives us several examples. Concerning tithing, he said: "Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, … and prove me now herewith … if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it" That is just an experiment. Many people have testified that they’ve tried the experiment and it works. That is the process of science. It is not an intellectually different kind of a thing.

    The Savior gave us another example. He said that if we want to know whether the doctrine is true and comes from the Father, we must "do his will." Then we "shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself". This is all that science asks us to do—simply judge on the basis of the data.

    We are also told that while science deals with experiment, religion deals with faith—and faith is supposed to be an intellectual process unknown to the scientist. This is obviously not true. Galileo (1564-1642), the great Italian astronomer and physicist who is often called the founder of experimental science, is a good example of a scientist who had faith. He invented telescopes that could see farther than had been seen before. His first important observations in astronomy concerned the moon. He discovered that the moon was not a smooth sphere shining by its own light; rather, its surface was marked with mountains and valleys, and its light was only reflected light. Galileo agreed with the theory of Copernicus that the earth moves around the sun, rather than the earth being the center of the universe with everything turning around it.

    These observations did not agree with the teachings of Aristotle and of the Catholic Church, so Galileo was dragged before the Inquisition, forced to endure a long trial, and punished. But he never lost faith in his finding. I believe that his confident belief in the things he had discovered was the same mental process in religion we would call faith. He stood by his beliefs even when he was treated cruelly.

    Science and religion do not employ different kinds of mental processes; rather, they share a great many things in common. I believe that we can analyze the gospel, ask questions about it, and look into its challenges scientifically."

    Woo hoo!  Do I get a prize for the longest comment in the history of Xanga?  Or at least on YOUR page?

  • Oh, and the scary part--there's MORE where that came from   Actually, I held back

  • I'm in need of some serious help.  I'm getting addicted to this little devil

  • Great and intelligent blog. o/

    God Bless - Dale

  • Perhaps the question isn't so much about whether science and religion can meld..but rather, can we, as humans, be tolerant of both points of view?

     

  • Oooh, Sister, that's a great comment - blog - miniseries.  Thank you.  (and we're having chili tonight if you want to come over ...)

    Tess - it's no fair coming up with such a GREAT comment when I think I'm done with the topic.  Now I'm off thinking about human nature ...

  • This read was like the next level of our science text from school today. Great read, thank you.

  • Hee HEe Hee 

  • Oh, I hope I can get my true brain back soon, so I can intellegently comment on the incredible blogs you produce here.

    Until then - WOW.

  • wonderful and  thought-ful at the same time.

    i will throw away religion or science the day one of them can fully explain everything.

  • ech, tolerant. 

    I think I've found my own peace with the two, so it's up to the strength of the individual to determine the possibilities.  Wish I had more to offer that hasn't already been said!

  • I'm with Sister CTR in my praise of this blog.  I think a lot of people, maybe even more nonscientific than scientific people in fact, are looking for "proof," in order to believe in God in Christ, or to regain the faith they had as children.  After these proof-seekers have had a few disappointments and tragedies in their lives, their faith is waylaid by doubt.  They become vulnerable to the suggestions of other mere mortals, and this can cause them to respond to God like the Biblical person named Job, whose friends were a chorus of shamers, blamers and doubters.  By the end of the book of Job--even though certain scholars think this ending is a later addition to the book written by someone(s) with an agenda--Job's comfort is restored and he responds to God by doing even more than God expected of him.  He is said to have thought equally about his male AND female children in provisions for their inheritances from him.  So not only does he provide for them as God would prefer, but he also provides for them equally, regardless of gender or birth order.  He goes above and beyond the call of duty, this restored Job.  He does a work of love and justice.  It's a shame some people are so bothered by Job, or take what the skeptical scholars say more strongly than their own glimmer of a happy impulse to see the ending as a hopeful, visionary one.  If scientists were all evil or all so skeptical in a malevolent way, they would not provide us with the amount of hope that they have for centuries.  I haven't met a medical scientist yet, for example, who wasn't a believer in God (or whatever name they choose to give to the Diety who guides as well as mystifies us).  One of my dearest friends who is also one of my strongest role models and mentors as another female in ministry would have been a science teacher had she not followed her calling into the vocation of congregational ministry.  So, yes, indeed, science and spirituality are compatible and meld with one another.   Hugs, Claudia     

  • Wasn't the question about technology? Great blog though.

  • Robert - You are of course correct that there is a difference between science and technology.  However, the question was more specifically why do people see technology and spirituality as mutally exclusive.  The answer to this question has to go deeper than whether or not the Amish use microwaves.  It has to address why they choose not to.  I don't know of any group that specifically rejects the products and applications of research (technology) except as a means of rejecting the worldview these products represent. 

  • I don't think I'm the right person to comment on this - science/technology and my religion don't seem to conflict.

  • Thank you.  Great reading.

  • I could probably do a blog here but will try to keep it short.  I take issue with one thing:  Science is not the broader view but the narrower one.  To those of faith, God is a priori and the source of all causation. To those of science, in the main, all knowledge is a posteriori. It searches for causation experientially only in that arena.  Science, therefore, does not concern itself with faith - apples and oranges - therefore no conflict.  Many of our greatest scientists are also people in whom there is a deep faith in God. 

     

  • Who are they, Turtle?  Which scientists believed in God, and is it the same "God"?

  • Amazing, yet again. Just as I have never thought the ideas of Creation and evolution as mutually exclusive, neither do I understand why science (and after it, technology) and religion should necessarily be antagonistic to one another. If faith is "the evidence of things unseen," then the scientist, as the astronaut pointed out, must rely on faith to believe the existence of everything from atoms to black holes.

    Organized religion may be (as I believe it was Marx who called it) "the opium of the masses," but to the individual human, spiritual faith is the catalyst of true hope. It is human nature to feel the need to believe in something greater than we can understand. If this instinct is the result of evolutionary programming, why would we possess it if it does not correspond to some Ultimate Truth?

    While working in the DU bookstore, I noticed a text for one class-- Finding Darwin's God by Kenneth Miller. It is one scientist's attempt to reconcile science and religion. I very much want to read it. Thanks again for yet another thought-provoking blog

  • Daffodilious -

    These are mathematicians, physicists, astronomers, chemists, biologists, neurosurgeons and other medical doctors... Only a few and they include many nobel prize winners:

    John Eccles, Wilder Penfield, Arthur Schawlow, Johannes Kepler, Isaac Newton, Arno Penzias, Paul Dirac, Louis Pasteur, Charles Townes, Jocelyn Bell Burnell, George Wald, William Gilbert, Galileo, Michael Faraday, Tycho Brahe, Copernicus.  The only one where your comment "God" would apply is with Einstein whose belief was consistent with "Spinoza's God" which wasn't a personal one but one lending order in the universe.

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