May 3, 2002

  • Correction: It is true that I alphabetize and organize things.  Approximately one half of my life is rigidly controlled and woe be to the one who disturbs the order.  The other half of my life is so uncontrolled and free that I'm not sure it's even with me most of the time.  I just wish it would send me a postcard occasionally so I'd know what region I'm scattered through this week. 


    Religious Words


    I have noticed that words we associate with religious life are understood differently depending on whether you are inside or out of the religious perspective.


    The people I read on Xanga are not silly.  You guys are thoughtful and tough-minded.  You question and seek, and for the most part are impressive in your attempt to avoid dogmatism and maintain an openness to the breath of truth.


    So when someone says that they don't believe in sin, that starts me wondering what they mean by sin, or more particularly perhaps, what does sin mean to that person.  The dictionary definition of sin is really useless for gaining understanding of this point.  If 'sin' is simply "the breaking of a religious or moral law, an act that does this" then it is silliness to say that one doesn't believe in sin.  Obviously,  humans frequently behave contrary to religious or moral law.


    If I'm explaining the concept of 'sin' to a Christian - or to someone interested in learning about Christian ideas, I would say that sin is much more than the violation of a taboo or the transgression of an external ordinance. It signifies the rupture of a personal relationship with God, a betrayal of the trust He places in us.  I recognize that this statement makes a number of presumptions.  Primarily, that the person I'm speaking with understands what I mean by a "personal relationship with God."  That's why I would only speak this way with Christians or serious seekers.


    For other conversation, it is silliness to speak of sin.  If the person I'm talking with neither believes in a personal God, nor understands the philosophical framework of Christian thinking, discussion of sin leaps over so many prerequisite steps of understanding that it is a meaningless term.


    I am not seeking a Christian understanding of sin.  I want to know what the word 'sin' means, what it feels like to someone outside Christianity.  So I'm going to venture a guess and you guys can tell me if you think I'm close.


    sin - an action/behavior that a person who perceives himself to be spiritually superior identifies as an excuse for condemning the inferior person.


    sinner - person deserving of condemnation by non-sinners (ie. those who feel themselves to be spiritually superior)

Comments (32)

  • This was the concept I was trying so badly to express in my definition...for the words to have any meaning, you have to know who you are defining it to. I finally took the direct route. I do wonder though, not so much about the WORD sin...but the concept of it, to those who do not use the exact word. Does that mean, as I take it, that they do not believe in a system of right and wrong at all, or is it just the word they are having differences with? Ooops...Guess this is not my blog to ask that on...but it was what struck ME the first time I heard that people didn't always feel that sin exists. *Wanders off to her own blog now.*

  • This is what the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary says...1 a : an offense against religious or moral law b : an action that is or is felt to be highly reprehensible c : an often serious shortcoming : FAULT
    2 a : transgression of the law of God b : a vitiated state of human nature in which the self is estranged from God...

    I'm not a christian, but agree with definition b.  I feel guilty if I violate one of my own principles.... 

  • Ouch

  • I was going to leave you a comment on this subject, but it was turning out to be blog-length, so I'll talk about it on my own blog today!  

    I'm finished with the books you sent me, and hopefully they'll get in the mail back to you today - tomorrow at the latest - so be on the lookout for them in the next few days.  Thanks again, Terri!

  • I wish you hadn't put the limitation of Christianity on this for the following reason. When I first began the studies that would become important to me (begun largely as a defense to what my child might be told at the religious school he attends), a Jewish woman answered the question of what her faith teaches is the meaning of life - to be in relationship - with Creator, with one another, with all of creation. I think she got it right. I'll let those who have other understandings answer the question on sin.

  • Very Niechietien.

  • sin=wrong

    Sorry, I'm a simple gal.

  • Hrm. I think if you are asking for a definition of sin as it exists outside of a religious context (Christian or otherwise), that's kind of like ordering beef stroganoff only without the sour cream and mushrooms.  Cleaved from any religiosity the word can only be left functioning as a kind of metaphor for itself; for what it represents within the religious context where it lives.  Sin, for someone outside of Christianity is a bit like brillig for someone outside of Jabberwocky.

  • This is a very interesting point.

    I'd love to read the comments here from non-Christians, concerning what sin actually means to them, because it never even ocurred to me.

  • Excellent point... as in Christianity.. sin is parting yourself from God.. if a non-christian is asking... then it becomes a matter of what is right and wrong... not a easy line to tread in some places.

  • I think sin is a deliberate breaking of God's law.

  • Good spark...

  • I'm with Scuba!

  • Hmmm.. Interesting.  My thoughts are blog length too.  But, being raised in a Catholic/Methodist house, sins were an act against Gods law.  

  • If we didn't sin then life would be boring and there would no need to ask for forgiveness.

    Have a good weekend
    GoNeCr8z

  • I'm with Mel & Scuba. It's real simple.  Black and White.  There is no gray in the SIN world.

    Have a good weekend!

  • I'm going with dwaber.

    To me sin is the breaking the law of whatever doctrine your religion follows.  Religion itself is an organization with a deity, or leader, a doctrine.  Those who follow the doctrine receive the reward.  Those who do not must suffer the consequences.  Do you know that in discussions about sin in literature, we dabble into the concept that the "original sin" is the thirst for knowledge?  It is only knowledge that allows people to become sinners.  Knowledge of evil.  One has to know evil in order to commit a sin, hm?  One who unknowingly commits a sin isn't necessarily a sinner, right?   The older we grow, the more we know... and the likelihood of sinning increases. 

    Do scientists think of knowledge as sinning?  Hell no.  "The more we know, the more we grow."  I don't think religion teaches that--I would think that many religions--Amish, Quaker, Puritan--keep it simple for that very reason.  The whole concept of lead us not into temptation... because we don't want to know about that shit, geeez!  Makes it hard to be good. 

    I'm rambling.  Brief recap:  Sin only exists in religion, because it is only in religion that there is a consequence for breaking the Mosaic negatives.....  And the most evil sin of all is "knowledge."

  • Don't Drop the Prop!

    Sin: a word worth three points when playing Scrabble.

  • Another "napper"

  • my comment wasn't in reference to your "daisy" observation on my website.  I said "Ouch" because I am embarrassed to admit that I can see some of myself reflected in your definition:

    "sin - an action/behavior that a person who perceives himself to be spiritually superior identifies as an excuse for condemning the inferior person."

  • think it boils down to semantics.....from my personal perspective....well, I dont' really think about it much...I suppose that my philosophy would be"if you doubt it, don't do it...if you do it, don't doubt it"  In other words......harm none....and don't go against your true heart....

  • I don't know if I'm superior in ANY way!  Heck, I'm lucky I stumble through life without falling face first most of the time.    Insightful post, glad I've stopped by. 

  • If someone "feels" themselves to be spiritually superior, then surely they are - by definition - actually more devolved than the people that they are judging to be lower.

    I feel this "sinning" approach to be a contradiction in terms...The Bible is always teaching about not judging others - because it is also a judgement on yourself - but isn't the act of calling someone a sinner a judgement in itself?

  • Sin is behavior contrary to truth. Sin is a good thing. It is only after someone recognizes it for what it is that they discover their need for a savior. It is the beginning point of salvation, don't you think? Discovering sin to be real ends the lie they've been telling themselves. 

  • What is sin?  It is definitely in the mind of the sinner.  I almost split a gut laughing at your definitions.  I do not believe in sin.  God doesn't make me feel guilty.  Been there, done that, moved on.  Too many concepts on living.  All of these concepts are garbage in a person's mind.  If you believe in such limitation then you have not yet allowed yourself to be free to see the truth in Creation.  To live by rules gives one a certain sense of safety until those rules become walls that begin to squeeze the life out of the soul.  Namaste   zera 

  • "sin - an action/behavior that a person who perceives himself to be spiritually superior identifies as an excuse for condemning the inferior person."

    Interesting.  I agree with it, but I would consider that to be a sin, not the definition of sin.  Pretty much any condescending behavor would qualify as a sin, since it make the other party feel like a loser.  If you are going out of your way to hurt someone, with words or violence, you are sinning, IMO.

    It varies by doctrine.  And for those without "religion"...well, I've found many of them to be better people than the so called "Christians" who find it so difficult to practice what they preach.  Those without religion look at life and those around them and simply treat those around them as they want to be treated.

    JMO, as always.

    -Kris

  • This is another issue that I have with my Calvanistic upbringing. They have a long list of sins - which made it very hard for the most of us to stay away from. Today I don't believe in a list of sins created by another being, I believe it is only sinful, when another person  is hurt in the process. Eg sex before marriage - not sinful. Adultery - sinful, because people get hurt in the process.

  • Truely a tough topic to tackle.... I am quasi Christian.... in that I am outside....yet follow the 10 baisic laws.... (comandments)  I resent the notion that all have sinned.  Because a new born babe is innocent and remains so until through trials falters when much older in life.

    Your definition of a sin, as a rupture of a personal relationship with God, Is the best way of explaining it.  Because I believe ALL are a part of God, and with life, there are those times when a person falters and falls away for a time, then gets back on the track. 

     It is not humanly posible to actually judge the lessons each individual goes through.....

  • Thanks-- you've helped me think more about a blog I was already planning to write, about the viability, or lack thereof, of dictionary definitions. As for what I had to comment here, like others, it became its own blog.

  • Interesting and thoughtful...these words apply to your blogs as well.  Thanks for sparking such an interesting 'conversation' with all kinds of people!  Spot

  • You might be pretty close to what the world thinks the words "sin" and "sinner" mean.

  • all I know is I AM a sinner.

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